Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to be Tried By Military Commission

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Egg
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Re: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to be Tried By Military Commissio

Post by Egg » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:23 am

By Celia Alexander
What is an “Enemy Combatant”? Defining the term has confounded two White House administrations. In 2004, the Bush people held the Combatant Status Review Tribunal (CRST) at Guantánamo Bay to determine if the prisoners could be qualified as “enemy combatants”. Previously, enemy combatants were the soldiers belonging to the army of an enemy, but many of the prisoners in Guantánamo Bay are citizens of countries that have good relations with the United States, like KSM who is originally from Kuwait, and are not part of their national army. Whither the definition and where does it go from here?
What is an “Enemy Combatant”? Defining the term has confounded two White House administrations. In 2004, the Bush people held the Combatant Status Review Tribunal (CRST) at Guantánamo Bay to determine if the prisoners could be qualified as “enemy combatants”. Previously, enemy combatants were the soldiers belonging to the army of an enemy, but many of the prisoners in Guantánamo Bay are citizens of countries that have good relations with the United States, like KSM who is originally from Kuwait, and are not part of their national army. Whither the definition and where does it go from here?
By Celia Alexander

The United States Attorney General, Eric Holder, announced that five suspects from the 9/11 attacks, including Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, will be tried as civilians in the federal court in New York City. This decision has been heavily criticized for numerous reasons. Among them is the myth that it will make the US more of a target, the concern that it will give Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (endearingly referred to by the media as KSM) a soapbox from which to preach his jihadist propaganda, and the suspicion that it will reveal intelligence that would endanger US national security, as if military secrets are going to be given away at the trial. However, these arguments and the debate about the venue of the trial, whether military or civilian courts, fail to address the underlying problem that the United States has neglected to address directly: how does one categorize a “terrorist”?
Before asking the question, “Should Khalid Sheikh Mohammed be tried in a civilian or military court?” The question should be, “Is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed a civilian or not?” The terrorists associated with the global “war on terror” have long been loosely defined as “enemy combatants”, but what does that classification mean in relation to prosecution?
The term “enemy combatant” has vexed two White House administrations. In 2004, the Bush administration held the Combatant Status Review Tribunal (CRST) at Guantánamo Bay to determine if the prisoners could be qualified as “enemy combatants”. Previously, enemy combatants were the soldiers belonging to the army of an enemy, but many of the prisoners in Guantánamo Bay are citizens of countries that have good relations with the United States, like KSM who is originally from Kuwait, and are not part of their national army. The CSRT did extend the definition of “enemy combatant” to include operatives of the Taliban and al Qaeda. KSM, by the Bush administration definition, is undoubtedly an “enemy combatant”. Then, on March 13, 2009, President Obama said his administration announced they planned to phase out the term “enemy combatant”.
Before 9/11, terrorist activities were seen as a sign of weakness, and it was the policy not to deal with terrorists directly in order to send the message that they were too insignificant to be taken seriously, therefore discouraging other attacks. Two wars and almost ten years later, tactics have changed. The US is now engaged in a new and ever-changing era of counterterrorism. Holder has confirmed that the US is at “war” with these terrorist organizations. But the US has also declared war on inanimate objects, such as drugs.
Republican Congressman Lindsey Graham from South Carolina questioned Holder at the Senate Judiciary Committee meeting on November 18. He addressed the issue of the discrepancy between treating terrorists sometimes like military operatives, and then treating them like criminals at other times. In the field, the military and the CIA do use “flexible” interrogation tactics to extract information needed at that moment to save lives. However, if these people are tried as criminals, they are entitled to a lawyer from the beginning and should be read their Miranda rights. In criminal cases, evidence extracted without a warrant, or under torture, will be thrown out in a court of law. Graham uses the example, if Osama bin Laden was caught tomorrow, would he be read his Miranda rights before interrogation?
Trying terrorists in civilian courts is not unprecedented. In 2001, two men were tried in a federal court in New York for bombing US embassies in East Africa. This upcoming trial is going to be closely scrutinized and could serve as the model of how terrorists are brought to justice. The Bush administration concentrated solely on capturing terrorists but neglected to decide what to do with them afterward. As a result, many have illegally languished in Guantánamo Bay prison for years. The Obama administration seeks, as it should, to give the accused a fair and transparent trial. By ordering the phasing out of the term “enemy combatant” and deciding to try terrorists in a federal courtroom, the Obama administration is clearly changing the policies laid out by the Bush administration. It is absolutely imperative that the Unites States uphold its values and demonstrate the strength of its legal system by giving the men suspected of orchestrating one of the worst attacks in the nation’s history the right to a fair trial. During this process, however, the current administration must seek to clearly define how to classify a terrorist.

http://www.continentaldivide.us/article ... atant.html


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Egg
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Re: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to be Tried By Military Commissio

Post by Egg » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:25 am

Snow Crash wrote:
Egg wrote:Yup!

I'll tell you what, if you believe Osama he promised to destroy America. Well, these wars have helped to drain the coffers and our ideal and freedoms have been curtailed. I'd say he's doing a swell job.
The true enemy in the WoT has never been 'the terrorists'. You know how I know that? I was born in a time and in a country where we had to deal with terrorism on a fairly regular basis. And the government didn't shred the freedoms back then. But now a 'terrorist group' has appeared and has managed to pull off.... one? Terrorist attack in the UK over the course of a fucking DECADE, and suddenly we need permission to take a piss.

Incidently, much of the IRA's funding came from the US. Go figure. The Good Guys my arse.
Well, didn't a lot of the American money come from civilians? Most of it, I mean?

I remember my time in London, aside from there being a lack of trash cans in certain places, there didn't seem to be any freedoms curtailed, and you guys faced this sort of thing far more often. I agree. It's a crock of shit.


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Re: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to be Tried By Military Commissio

Post by Egg » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:28 am

By the way, the men from the East African embassy bombings went to prison. Every one of them, I believe.


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Re: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to be Tried By Military Commissio

Post by Snow Crash » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:51 am

Egg wrote:Well, didn't a lot of the American money come from civilians? Most of it, I mean?

I remember my time in London, aside from there being a lack of trash cans in certain places, there didn't seem to be any freedoms curtailed, and you guys faced this sort of thing far more often. I agree. It's a crock of shit.
You are correct, most of the US funding did come from civvies. In fact, there is a theory in some circles that funding for the IRA dried up massively after 9/11.

How many times does it need saying? Most people only engage their brains when shit lands in their pond. Up until they got a proper taste of mass civilian death and utter panic, I bet most of those proudly funneling money to the IRA had plenty of stupid, juvenile, romantic notions of armed jih... er, struggle.

It's along the same lines as these armchair generals watching Fox News and wanking themselves into a foam every time they hear a body count from Afghanistan.
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Re: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to be Tried By Military Commissio

Post by lkwalker » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:51 am

Back in the 70s the IRA operated a number of pubs in college towns all over the US. All of them had names that were variations on 'Star and Plough.' All the money went back to Sinn Fein. The ones in Berkeley and Cambridge were the biggest and most successful. They were both great places to hang out. At the time the Irish-British political issue presented itself much as the Israeli- Palestinian issue is today and it provoked wide spread anti British feelings in the radical American left- especially among Irish kids- who viewed England as an effete and repressive occupier in Ulster. Which it was and is.
"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

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Re: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to be Tried By Military Commissio

Post by Pigeon » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:39 am

Does a foreign criminal need to be read the same rights as a US citizen to prevent the 'rights denied' loophole.

I would think that once a group of people band together for a purpose of violence against another country, they could be considered an enemy army or organization. Do these groups claiming to be a military forces (army loosely) not actually count without some special words written in the records of various countries.

Does it require it to be under the flag of a country?

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Re: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to be Tried By Military Commissio

Post by lkwalker » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:01 pm

I think you've identified the very issue with which the US government is struggling. I think it's gonna be a long struggle.
"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

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Re: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to be Tried By Military Commissio

Post by Pigeon » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:11 pm

Which means the Geneva Convention who ha might need to be thrown in.

I can see the forms now.

1. The accused is:
A. a member of a standing army of a foreign country
B. a spy

If you selected A at question 1 goto 3

2. Gallows if short on bullets. Done.

3. Alert your national army for war.
Ask for war funds.
Push national patriotism
Goto 2.

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Re: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to be Tried By Military Commissio

Post by lkwalker » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:17 pm

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"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

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Re: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to be Tried By Military Commissio

Post by Snow Crash » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:20 pm

lkwalker wrote:Back in the 70s the IRA operated a number of pubs in college towns all over the US. All of them had names that were variations on 'Star and Plough.' All the money went back to Sinn Fein. The ones in Berkeley and Cambridge were the biggest and most successful. They were both great places to hang out. At the time the Irish-British political issue presented itself much as the Israeli- Palestinian issue is today and it provoked wide spread anti British feelings in the radical American left- especially among Irish kids- who viewed England as an effete and repressive occupier in Ulster. Which it was and is.
Thanks for neatly proving my point.
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