Pana asked me to start a thread on Freedom..

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lkwalker
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Pana asked me to start a thread on Freedom..

Post by lkwalker » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:18 pm

What is freedom?

Is it a matter of action- the field within which it is popularly conceived? Or is it a set of principles that subsumes even the 'right to unencumbered choice?' When we speak of freedom we generally limit our discourse to the former and inevitably reduce our arguments to a series of slogans having no philosophical bases.

Arthur Afterburn chose the latter approach and he began here:
Re: Dialectic of Ethics. Is morality unethical?

The discovery of the contradiction was attributed to Afterburn in his 20 Principles. A good place to end up but maybe also a decent point of departure.

Afterburn's Concordance

The Dialectical Concordance: First Principles
1. That among all possible forms and actual entities Ecological Equilibrium necessarily exists.
2. That the basic substance of the universe is characterized by Mood.
3. That the basic substance of the universe is Ethics.
4. That the first three principles constitute the Dialectical Process.
5. That each Principle, in itself, contains the Dialectical Process.
6. That, therefore, there necessarily exists an Identity among all possible realities.
7. That this Identity is dichotomized only by relativity;
8. Which dichotomy in itself constitutes Dialectic.
9. That all argument is therefore by nature, spiralar.
10. That the Spiral Continuum is both ascendant and descendant simultaneously.
11. That Abstraction from the Continuum always results in circularity.
12. That the Will is necessarily characterized as Abstraction from the Continuum.
13. Will is therefore alienation from the Process of Reality- Dialectic,
14. And is therefore in opposition to the Ethical.
15. The Order of Conflicting Wills is Morality.
16. Morality is therefore by its very nature unethical.
17. Process/ Ethics is characterized by Love and Free Harmony among all actual entities.
18. Will/ Morality is characterized by conflict and force.
19. Mergence with Process is accorded by the Imagination.
20. Imagination is the Mood of God.


we are complicit in our own captivity.

Compiled by Arthur Afterburn. Berkeley, California- 1969
He conceived of 'Popular Freedom' and 'Essential Freedom' as two distinctly separate and unequal paradigms.

Principles 18 through 20, in particular, encapsulate his idea on the difference between the two:

17. Process/ Ethics is characterized by Love and Free Harmony among all actual entities.
18. Will/ Morality is characterized by conflict and force.
19. Mergence with Process is accorded by the Imagination.
20. Imagination is the Mood of God.

Even though he doesn't to cite freedom per se his principles subsume the intellectual and metaphysical requirements for a person to be free.

Sound confusing? It's really not as complex as it appears to be on first take. The popular ideas concerning freedom fall within the moral province of 'free will' while the profound concept speaks to the transcendent Laws of Ethics.

13. Will is therefore alienation from the Process of Reality- Dialectic,
14. And is therefore in opposition to the Ethical.

In other words the moral basis for 'freedom' is derivative of higher principles and limiting our arguments to derivative propositions necessarily results in contradiction. That's just the way it is:

15. The Order of Conflicting Wills is Morality.
16. Morality is therefore by its very nature unethical.

Don't blame me for opening this can of worms- blame Pana.
"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

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Re: Pana asked me to start a thread on Freedom..

Post by lkwalker » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:42 pm

Indy said this in the Commie room.

"Free will is a funny thing. It assumes that having freedom to choose is having freedom."

And he is right.
"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

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Re: Pana asked me to start a thread on Freedom..

Post by Egg » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:56 pm

So going against God's mood is immoral and that is the popular approach to free will

IF you walk away from this screen because I or someone else doesn't get what you're saying, I'm sending the cat and AverageJoe over there to beat you with shovels.


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Re: Pana asked me to start a thread on Freedom..

Post by lkwalker » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:26 pm

The Mood of God is Ethics. As Afterburn pointed out on many occasions, Ethics is no less than the Basic Substance of the Universe. It's by no means an abstraction but the basis for Creation, itself. Now if you don't agree with that then c'est la vie. And then go fuck yourself.
"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

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Re: Pana asked me to start a thread on Freedom..

Post by Egg » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:28 pm

lkwalker wrote:The Mood of God is Ethics. As Afterburn pointed out on many occasions, Ethics is no less than the Basic Substance of the Universe. It's by no means an abstraction but the basis for Creation, itself. Now if you don't agree with that then c'est la vie. And then go fuck yourself.
That's not what I asked, dickhead. You mentioned the popular idea of freewill. Those who deviate from the God's mood are exercising that? And, they are taking part in an immoral act by your definition?


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Re: Pana asked me to start a thread on Freedom..

Post by lkwalker » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:33 pm

I talked about not the popular idea of 'free will' but rather the popular concept of 'freedom', you one legged whore.
"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

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Re: Pana asked me to start a thread on Freedom..

Post by Egg » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:35 pm

lkwalker wrote:I talked about not the popular idea of 'free will' but rather the popular concept of 'freedom', you one legged whore.
Listen, you syphilitic John, I'm hungover so cut me some slack. Fine, so the popular concept of freedom is going against the divine mood of God which is ethic which is the fabric of reality and that is immoral?


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Re: Pana asked me to start a thread on Freedom..

Post by lkwalker » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:43 pm

Let me clarify this for you, you insulant piece of hamster scat.

The popular concept of freedom is the unfettered contest of will.

15. The Order of Conflicting Wills is Morality.

Morality is derivative of Ethics and necessarily a lower principle, according to Afterburn's system. Therefore there is a higher and lower freedom.

Get it?
"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

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Re: Pana asked me to start a thread on Freedom..

Post by Escape_Artist » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:51 pm

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
Me gusta Capitalismo Anarquista!

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Re: Pana asked me to start a thread on Freedom..

Post by lkwalker » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:52 pm

Exactly correct. Janis nailed it.
"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

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